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Episode 18 - International Tax Strategies and Forms

Episode 18 – International Tax Strategies and Forms provides insights for any US taxpayer with offshore interests, and any international person or expat with US interests.  Jan begins the conversation with an interesting observation: “I think the perception is that Americans don’t realize that once they leave our shores and they move to another country or they obtain residency in another country, that they have foreign reporting issues (to the IRS). I think sometimes the term foreign reporting is interpreted to mean it’s not me because I’m an American citizen, when in fact if you are an American citizen outside of the states or you have foreign holdings, real estate, bank accounts, et cetera, outside of the United States, (filing an IRS tax return) does apply to you. And most people are quite surprised by that.”

The episode goes on to discuss various foreign investments, entities and real estate ownership as well as oft used IRS tax forms such as the 5471, 8858, FBAR (Form 114) and 8938.  Jan goes on to explain the importance of transactional planning as it relates to international and US tax exposure with two simple goals: minimize tax exposure while protecting and preserving the associated assets.

Jan

Welcome to AB Cast, integrating Legal Tax Accounting and Business Solutions. I’m Janathan Allen. Welcome to our podcast on trusts.

Neil

Jan, when it comes to US tax issues and foreign reporting, it’s a bit of a complex subject. Could you give us just a brief overview of how you perceive foreign reporting and maybe some of the biggest misconceptions that you think US tax filings and international tax filings have about that?

Jan

Yeah, it’s an issue that we see in our office almost daily. And I think the perception is that Americans don’t realize that once they leave our shores and they move to another country or they obtain residency in another country, that they have foreign reporting issues. I think sometimes the term foreign reporting is interpreted to mean it’s not me because I’m an American citizen, when in fact if you are an American citizen outside of the states or you have foreign holdings, real estate, bank accounts, et cetera, outside of the United States, it does apply to you. And most people are quite surprised by that. And I’m not certain why there’s been a lot of reporting on the news on the internet relating to foreign reporting. And so I’m, I’m always surprised when people say, well, I’ve been outside of the country for five, 10, maybe 20 years. I didn’t even know that I had a foreign reporting issue. So it’s a fairly, I don’t want to say it, it is a complex problem, but it’s a fairly common one that still surprises me.

Neil

And basically, if you’re a US citizen anywhere in the world or here in the United States with offshore assets, you must file a tax return.

Jan

It’s not only the tax return, but it’s the additive foreign reporting requirements, yes, that are required as well. So yes, as long as you are a US citizen, regardless of whether you reside in the United States or not, you are required to file a tax return. And when I get the comment that individuals will say to me, I don’t have enough income to report, the issue that I respond back with is this, if you don’t file a tax return, then there is no statute of limitation with which to toll and begin because there’s no return filed. Which means if for whatever reason the Internal Revenue Service were suddenly to inspect your IRS filings and didn’t find tax returns, they could go back forever because there’s no statute of limitation on fraud, assuming that you were willfully not filing your tax returns. So my advice is to whether you owe tax or not, whether or not you believe you should file a tax return, it’s prudent to file the tax return in order to establish the date for the statute of limitations to begin tolling

Neil

And also whether or not you owe tens or hundreds or thousands or zero.

Jan

Right, exactly.

Neil

So Jan, let’s talk about some of the foreign assets, specific assets and interests that a US taxpayer may have. And let’s begin with offshore corporate ownership interests. So can you give us a little bit of an overview about the tax perspective of someone who holds an interest in an offshore corporation?

Jan

Well, I think this is probably one of the easier categories to discuss because individuals that have an ownership in a foreign corporation generally know that. But I’m going to caveat that by saying there are individuals, particularly in the UK that may hold directorships within companies that don’t understand that those directorships are actually holders of the company. And so while they don’t understand that they are a shareholder within a corporation, the fact that they are a director may make them a shareholder in a corporation. So as much as I like to simplify things, the fact is sometimes Americans may not understand that they do hold foreign interests in corporations outside of the US.

Neil

Jan, let’s talk about some of the forms that are associated with an IRS return as it pertains to these offshore corporations. What are some of the forms they need to be aware of and what are the basic gist of the forms themselves?

Jan

Well, the corporations, depending on the percentage of ownership and the corporation ownership interest is reported on form 5471. And that form 5471 is the equivalent of filing a corporate tax return here in the states. Hmm. The differentiation is that the income that ignores to the balance or to the p and l on this 5471 is then multiplied by the owner’s percentage interest and recorded and reported on that individual’s individual US income tax return. So the outlier for foreign corporations is that the corporation may make money, it may not distribute it to you the shareholder, but you may be taxed on it anyway. So it’s critically important that if you have a interest in a foreign corporation, that you obtain the financial statements of that particular entity, any foreign tax returns that are filed in order to properly file the foreign 5471, which will then give you the K1 information that will be reported on your individual return.

Neil

Jan, what impact does the percentage of your ownership interest have on your various filing obligations?

Jan

The percentage of ownership relating to foreign corporations is the determining factor in whether or not foreign 5471 will have to be filed. If you have a 10% ownership in an entity, then there is a general filing requirement to file the 5471. But there are additional filing requirements that are additive to that. So for example, there’s a constructive ownership rule under the IRS and the regs that relate to family members that may have ownership within a corporation as well. So while you may have only 5% and you feel that you fall below that 10% ownership interest, the fact is if you have a brother or a sister or a parent that also owns stock within that entity, the constructive ownership rules will inure to you and collectively whatever it is that your family owns will be the determining factor as to whether or not form 5471 needs to be filed.

Neil

Please paste the corresponding text of the conversation here.  If additional sections are needed, copy the entire section (not the block) by rolling your mouse up, over this section, until the baby blue tab that reads “edit inner section” appears.  Right click on the left side with the six dots and select “duplicate”.  You can then move the section down to alternate speakers.

Jan

Please paste the corresponding text of the conversation here.  If additional sections are needed, copy the entire section (not the block) by rolling your mouse up, over this section, until the baby blue tab that reads “edit inner section” appears.  Right click on the left side with the six dots and select “duplicate”.  You can then move the section down to alternate speakers.

Neil

So the cumulative actions of a family are as if it was a single holder, they’re going to total it up and say, if it’s over 10%, we need to file.

Jan

Absolutely. And the more complicating factor is if you are an individual American and you have 10% ownership in a 5471, there are certain forms that need to be filed. The issue becomes far more complex when the entity becomes what’s known as a controlled foreign corporation. Yes. And the controlled foreign corporation is when an American or Americans collectively own 50% or more of a foreign entity, then the entire landscape of the rules and regulations and foreign reporting changes. So it’s a far easier tax reporting requirement if you own 50% or less. And the entity is not a controlled foreign corporation. So it’s really important to determine what ownership you have, whether or not the entity is a controlled foreign corporation, and that will in turn determine and define the foreign reporting requirements you’ll have on your individual return.

Neil

So Jan, is there a tax planning element to this? So if I have offshore interest, are there things I can do or ways I can structure my holdings or other holdings to offset that to reduce my tax exposure?

Jan

Yes, there are. And we do a lot of the transactional planning for Americans because of the direct ownership conflict that may arise in tax planning for them as individuals when they’re filing their US tax returns. And so it could be creating a holding company within another country, a country that may have a bilateral tax treaty with the United States. But there are ways to mitigate some of these more draconian rules, particularly as it relates to controlled foreign corporations and the onerous foreign reporting requirements that are substantially required by the IRS and its regs.

Neil

And I think it’s the integration of our legal and tax services that really changes the balance of the equation for our clients. Don’t you think?

Jan

Absolutely.

Neil

Jan, what are the types of entities and associated IRS forms fall into this corporate ownership bucket?

Jan

I think probably one of the most problematic are the foreign partnerships. Just like partnerships here in the states, you don’t have to have a formal agreement with which to create a partnership. So I’ll give you a quick example. I had a Canadian client, US resident that had a ownership of a house in Canada with his brother-in-law. And so most people would think, well, that isn’t a partnership. But in fact, under US law, that’s precisely what it is. So you may think you have a Schedule E reporting requirement for this foreign ownership of the property or real estate in Canada, when in fact you have a foreign partnership filing requirement foreign 8865, in addition to the reporting on the Schedule E that may be required as well. So there are family ownership of generally real estate. It could be other types of assets that you may not think about, but if there’s a commonality of ownership, you need to take a look at whether or not there is a foreign partnership that may come into play and require foreign reporting requirements.

There are the foreign limited liability companies. Frankly, there are no equivalent to the LLCs that we have here in the states. There are modifications of what people call limited companies in the rest of the world, but the LLC is fairly unique in how it is actually structured as an entity here in the states. The, the rest of the world really doesn’t have limited liability companies. They have limited companies, and those companies are generally limited by the number of stocks or shares of stock that can be issued. And so there’s I think an ill-defined association of a limited company with limited liability company and the two should be confused. But if there is a foreign limited company, then what we generally file is form 8858, which allows us to go back and essentially report the same type of information that we would perform if someone held shares in a foreign corporation.

Except that the US regulations and tax law recognizes the fact that it’s not a corporation, it’s something other than a corporation. And then I think one of the last is the trusts. Foreign trusts are very complex and they’re very heavy into penalties if they aren’t reported properly. And I think one of the best examples of this is I can give is the superannuation plans that are really the rage in Australia. And in Australia, these superannuation plans give their foreign trusts, they give Australian residents and citizens enormous tax savings and deferrals. But because the US takes a look at these superannuation plans and treats them as a foreign grantor trust, any income that’s earned in these foreign trusts is then reported in the US on foreign 3520. And unfortunately the income that’s earned from these foreign trusts is taxed at a far higher rate than even the highest individual rate of 36%.

So income from a foreign trust can be taxed as high as 55% of whatever the income is coming from the foreign trust. Wow. The trust can be superannuations, they can be foreign pensions, they can be a number of things. So it’s really critical to understand what it is and what type of entity you’re dealing with, particularly when it relates to foreign trusts. And the biggest, I think one of the biggest foreign trusts that people don’t think about is there are trusts outside of the United States as well, family trusts, which you may be a beneficiary of, which of course is going to impact your US tax return as well.

Neil

So before we leave the discussion on foreign entities and corporations, there’s a term that is, the disregarded entity for US tax purposes. What is a disregarded entity?

Jan

<laugh>? Well, it’s a slight of hand, but what it is an entity because you know, entities are not created in the United States. They’re created by states. If I go into California and I create, for example, a limited liability company and it’s a single member, limited liability company, then the IRS for its purposes disregards the state entity itself. Yes. It doesn’t mean the entity has disappeared, it just means for taxing purposes, anything that happens in that entity, it’s going to be reported on the individual’s tax return.

Neil

It’s a flow through.

Jan

Yeah. So it’s disregarded for tax purposes.

Neil

Very good. And then there’s a form 8938 where we’re specifying other foreign assets. Is that a common form or is that something that’s really isolated?

Jan

No, it is really quite common. There’s some confusion because the financial reporting requirements, everybody pretty much understands I think FBARs form 114 where you report bank accounts and insurance policies and mutual investments, et cetera. What they’re not so familiar with is form 8938, which has a different level of reporting requirements because of the amount that is required to report on form 8938. So for example, on an FBAR form 114, if you have a bank account with over a foreign bank account with over $10,000 in it, then you’re required to file form 114 for form 8938. The requirements are, I believe, for an individual $75,000 married, finally joint $150,000. But a lot of the reporting assets on an FBAR will be reported on form 8938 as well. The distinction is the Form 114, the FBARs are really reported to the Department of Justice.

Neil

Yes.

Jan

They’re not reported to the Internal Revenue Service. The Internal Revenue Service has that information, but the actual filing is with the Department of Justice. The 8938 on the other hand, is a form that is reported to the Internal Revenue Service Treasury, if you will. And so the distinction, while the information may be the same, the distribution of the forms is going to two different agencies.

Neil

So I think it’s an important distinction while we’re talking about FBAR and 8938. So in a case of an FBAR, it’s not $10,000 at the end of the year or a cumulative balance. It’s at any point, even if it’s for an hour or a day, if it exceeds that $10,000 threshold. Is that true for 8938 thresholds as well?

Jan

It is.

Neil

Very good.

Jan

Yeah. It is quite funny that it is such a common problem. And I think that’s because a lot of individuals that have lived in Europe or were born in Europe, the real estate that is purchased, or quite frankly, generally inherited is different than how it is we view real estate here in the States. So you and I may go out and purchase a house, but in Europe it’s a bit different. Houses are passed down from generation to generation. It’s not quite the same as how it is, particularly with the great movement, you know, families moving from state to state to state and purchasing houses or condos or whatever. That’s really not the way it’s done, particularly in Europe. So I have a number of clients that will have family ownership of properties, and it can be rental properties, it can be the, it could be the old homestead, it could be sister Betty’s living in it now.

But the fact of the matter is the whole family owns it. So foreign real estate becomes complex because of the types of ownership that we recognize here in the United States. For example, you can have tenants in common, you can have joint tenancy, you can have community property. Those really are not duplicated in Europe. There is an ownership, and the ownership is really whoever it is listed on the de. So I have an interesting case that I just finalized, and it had to do with property in the Netherlands. It was a family ranch, and what the parents had done was they had placed the property, and here it goes into the trust <laugh>, and then given a beneficial interest to the children for the property via the trust. So I was asked the other day to compute what the, if the property, the underlying property and the trust were to be sold, what was the value of that property? And it becomes different because if you take a look at it from just the property perspective, that’s one answer. When you view it from the trust perspective, that’s an entirely different answer. So it becomes radically more complex for individuals that own foreign property depending on how they own it, and then if there’s a familial association or a trust or even a family partnership that’s been formed in order to hold those assets.

Neil

So relatively speaking, foreign real estate is taxed fairly similarly to the way that it is here in the United States, but depreciation’s a different animal, is it not?

Jan

Well, fortunately for us, the depreciation that’s allowed on foreign property is the same as it is here in the States. The interesting thing, however, is while other foreign countries may not tax the sale of that property, the United States will, and it’s not the property itself that they’re taxing, it’s the individuals that own the property that’s being taxed. So it is a far more complex issue than I think people normally think of, particularly if they’re US bound and going outside of the United States, then perhaps it is for foreigners that are coming to the United States and become residents and then subsequently citizens.

Neil

So as we conclude this conversation about foreign assets and foreign reporting, Jan, this all comes down to transactional planning. You have tax exposure, and the goal, of course is to keep as much money in to minimize your taxation. How do you approach foreign offshore tax planning and transactional planning?

Jan

It’s a component really, of the transactional plan that we do. And because you can’t do a transactional plan without taking a look at the overall assets that an individual has, and that includes bank accounts and investments, and it may be real estate here, it may be real estate outside of the us. But the fact is, when you have assets, you’re looking to put together a plan. Lots of people are quite comfortable going with a financial planner, but the financial planner doesn’t necessarily put together the entity holdings and the structural transactions buy in between entities with which to create operational or investment or active income so that it minimizes risk and it mitigates risk and it minimizes tax. So regardless if its assets are held all domestically or if they’re held domestically and internationally, or if they’re all internationally, a transactional plan can help individuals do the two things that I think most everybody in the world is looking to do. And that’s mitigate risk and minimize tax.

Neil

And that is an integrated legal and tax issue.

Jan

It’s integrated tax, legal, and accounting.

Neil

Thanks, Jan.

Jan

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